Hoda Kotb hasn’t held back when it’s come to discussing her split from ex-fiancé Joel Schiffman, who she was with for eight years before calling off their engagement in January 2022. She’s also been refreshingly candid about her hopes of finding love again, which is something fans understandably admire her for.

On a recent episode of her podcast, Making Space with Hoda Kotb, she welcomed psychotherapist and bestselling author Esther Perel to have a conversation about finding love and intimacy. Keep reading for more information.

During the July 29th, 2026 episode of Making Space, Ethel asked Hoda about her dating life. “When do you find yourself most drawn to your partner? Not just sexually — drawn to in the good sense?” she asked.

After clarifying she was talking about her previous relationship, and not a current one, Hoda answered: “When they were in their work; in their element. Whether it was watching them play golf because they dominated, or on the tennis court, or in front of a crowd, that was always a ‘wow’ because I was kind of admiring.”

“When he’s playing sports, like when he’s lifting weights — I just thought that was like a ‘wow.’ And when he was holding our daughter,” she added.

Ethel then responded by pointing out that Hoda’s response is quite common. “First and foremost, when my partner is in their element, when they’re competent, when they’re radiant, and especially when they’re self-sufficient. They don’t need me. And if they don’t need me, I don’t have to take care of them. I don’t have to be responsible. I don’t have to be motherly. I can retrieve the woman from behind the mother, and I can want them,” explained Perel.

“When they don’t need me because they’re in their thing, I can admire them, which involves an idealization. I can look up to them, and all of that is the grist for the mill of desire and the want.”

Hoda Kotb And The End Of Her Marriage

This isn’t the first time Hoda has opened up about her love life and the end of her last relationship. In her book, Jump and Find Joy, Kotb writes about the moment she knew her marriage was coming to an end.

While attending a week-long retreat at the Hoffman Institute, which is designed to help people “make significant positive changes” in their lives, the mom-of-two admitted that she felt like “everything had shifted.” And sadly, that shift extended to her relationship with Schiffman.

“Our ‘us’ felt different,” Kotb wrote, as per Today. “I knew I could say that I wanted to better myself or something vague like that. But when I looked around at all the people who’d shared their raw truth, I felt so moved by their honesty.”

“They deserved the same from me. So, I said it. I told the truth about why I had come,” she went on, adding: “‘I am a total phony in my relationships,’ I said. ‘I’m a pretender.'”

When asked by Today what she meant by her “pretender” remark, she said: “I think sometimes you know that a relationship is – I would say good – but you think to yourself it’s not deepening.”

She added: “So, you continue along [in] the relationship, and I think the truth of the matter is sometimes you have to say to yourself, like, ‘I feel like I’m an optimist.’ And so, when you’re an optimist, you want to make things work, and sometimes, things don’t.”